No differentiation between modified/ checked out?

[gereonkos]

Having become accustomed to VSS, I got used to it informing me which files were checked out to me, and which files were simply modified, when I did a "Get Latest Version". SourceOffsite groups them all as "may have been modified". Did they just elect to not mimic this functionality, or do I need to enable it, or ???

[corey]

In SOS 4.0, all modified files are treated the same.

[crwdfwtx]

I'm not sure what this adds to the app. In 4.0 (and 4.0.1) you have a far greater likelihood of overwriting your checked out files and losing work. In 3.5.3 you could at least set options so that your checked out files wouldn't get overwritten (though the option was named something very unintuitive, I forget what). Can we expect a future maintenance version that will allow you to prevent overwriting of checked out files?

Randy Wilson
Dallas, Texas

[corey]

We're considering adding an option for treating checked out and unchecked out files differently so you can choose between the current 4.0 behavior or the old 3.5 behavior. I'm not sure if this would be a part of a 4.0.X release or 4.1.

[scooter]

I would like to add to this request.

SOS is very difficult to use due to this deviation from the VSS approach.

[scooter]

Sorry for the second post...

What I should have said in the prior post is that the current approach is not just difficult to use, it is in fact *dangerous*. As a new user of SOS, I have already caused data loss due to this "feature".

Please fix this.

[crwdfwtx]

This continues to be a major drawback to using SOS Classic 4.x. Why oh why can't we have a simple option such as Do Not Overwrite My Checked-out Files???

Consider these scenarios:

1) I have checked out some files and have work in progress, but I need to get the changes made by others. I have to be very careful when I do a Get Latest to choose 'Do not overwrite. Merge later' or my modified files will get overwritten. I also have to tell SOS to prompt me for every file since SOS can't determine which files are Checked Out to me.

2) Because of the above situation, I have to tell SOS 'Do no overwrite. Merge later' and I also have to tell it not to prompt me for every file, or else every time I do a Get Latest, it will ask me if I want to overwrite the files I have checked out. So NOW if I make a local file writable in order to make a couple of changes just so that I compile, chances are that if I do not remember to explicitly go back and do a Get Latest on that one file, then any future changes that get made by other developers won't get downloaded to my local machine. This is because SOS assumes I don't want any updates to that file, since I have to treat it exactly like it was Checked Out!!!

This is maddening and dangerous. It also goes against a basic premis of VSS which is that, as long as you have a file Checked Out, then you have control over that file and you must be very explicit if you want to overwrite your local changes. I still haven't found the proper cocktail of settings in SOS that will let me get my work done without pulling out my hair, and nothing that I've read in this forum gives me confidence that the issue is even recognized, let alone being addressed. As the other posters have stated, the current functionality is unintuitive and results in frequent confusion at best, and data loss at worst.

Please PLEASE PLEASE provide an option not to overwrite Checked Out files!!!!!!!

Randy Wilson
Dallas, Texas

[corey]

I have checked out some files and have work in progress, but I need to get the changes made by others.

In this scenario, why wouldn't you just want to set your option to be automatic merge? That way your edited files wouldn't be overwritten, and yet changes made by others would be merged in.

[Guest]

Because I don't want SOS doing anything to my files 'automagically', especially merging code from others. Besides which, if the other developer *still* has the file checked out, then I will lose my local changes.

Again, this isn't really rocket science. I guess the only answer here is to go back to 3.5.3 or else use another 3rd-party tool to access VSS remotely. It's sad that SOS has taken such a huge step backward with an 'upgrade'.

CRW
Dallas, Texas

[corey]

Because I don't want SOS doing anything to my files 'automagically', especially merging code from others.

Do you typically have a lot of Renegade (modified but not checked out) or Unknown (maybe modified but SOS doesn't know the baseline version) files in your working directories?

If not, and if you don't want SOS to ever do an automatic merge, then you should just set your global option to be "never overwrite, merge later" and you wouldn't need to worry. During a Get Latest, files that aren't modified locally will simply be replaced with the latest from SourceSafe, and those that are modified (Edited) locally will be left alone.

Besides which, if the other developer *still* has the file checked out, then I will lose my local changes.

Why? I don't understand what you mean. The SOS Client does its merge locally during a Get Latest, and wouldn't be effected by changes on the other developer's machine.

Again, this isn't really rocket science. I guess the only answer here is to go back to 3.5.3 or else use another 3rd-party tool to access VSS remotely. It's sad that SOS has taken such a huge step backward with an 'upgrade'.

Well, there's a good chance we'll probably make the old way of working an option, but I still want to be sure I understand why the new way is causing you problems first. If you don't have a lot of Renegade or Unknown files, then this shouldn't be an issue.

[Guest]

Thanks Corey for your reply and patience.

Here's what I'm looking for:

- Don't ever overwrite Checked Out files unless I specify some option like 'Overwrite Checked-Out files'
- If I have locally modified files that are not Checked Out, then give me a message asking whether to overwrite.
- Provide a 'Yes to All' option that would overwrite all locally modified files that are not Checked Out, just in case I have made changes to several local files during some ad hoc coding process
- If I need to merge files, I will do so using an editor for that purpose so that I can see and approve each change that is being made. No automatic merging *ever*

I don't see any combination of the various options that will provide this functionality.

On to specifics:

Do you typically have a lot of Renegade (modified but not checked out) or Unknown (maybe modified but SOS doesn't know the baseline version) files in your working directories?

I have Renegade files under very specific circumstances, as described above. However, it's very frequent that SOS designates my files as 'Unknown'. (Far more often now, of course, since SOS only uses checksums in extremely limited circumstances.)

The SOS Client does its merge locally during a Get Latest, and wouldn't be effected by changes on the other developer's machine.

I'm not talking about the changes on the other developer's machine. I'm talking about the old *original* code as checked in to SOS, which is *different* from my locally modified file. If I make local changes in order to compile while someone else is working on a file, then do a Get Latest with Merge turned on, my local changes will revert to what is currently stored in SOS.

Essentially the only option here that will cover all bases is to have SOS ask me about the status of every single file and deal with each one individually. We have probably a dozen developers working on a massive project and it may be the case that I need to Get Latest several times a day. Having to continually tweak and second-guess the options for Get Latest in order to get *their* changes without losing *my* changes is starting to be a full-time headache. I'm not sure why the SOS feature set has to be so different from VSS. It's great to hear that SOS will be updated to work the 'old' way but what would be even better would be if it were as intuitive and straightforward as VSS.

Thanks again Corey for your reply and help.

CRW
Dallas, Texas

[corey]

- Don't ever overwrite Checked Out files unless I specify some option like 'Overwrite Checked-Out files'

That's the type of additional option we're considering.

- If I need to merge files, I will do so using an editor for that purpose so that I can see and approve each change that is being made. No automatic merging *ever*

The problem is, the majority of our customers wanted automatic merge. They only want to deal with a manual merge if there's a conflicting change.

However, it's very frequent that SOS designates my files as 'Unknown'. (Far more often now, of course, since SOS only uses checksums in extremely limited circumstances.)

Hmmm. You shouldn't be getting lots of Unknown files. Unknown files should only appear when (1) you first start using SOS (and already have files on your disk that were retrieved using SourceSafe or (2) if you're constantly switching back and forth between SOS and VSS clients on the same machine, which is not recommended.

I'm not talking about the changes on the other developer's machine. I'm talking about the old *original* code as checked in to SOS, which is *different* from my locally modified file. If I make local changes in order to compile while someone else is working on a file, then do a Get Latest with Merge turned on, my local changes will revert to what is currently stored in SOS.

If that's what you're really seeing (with automatic merge as your option), then its a bug and we've had no reports of a bug like that in 4.0. When you do a Get Latest of a file that you've modified, your changes will remain in the file after the other changes have been merged in. Your changes will not be lost. The only exception is if there is a conflict between your changes and the changes to the file in the database. In that case the automatic merge will fail and you will be notified that you'll have to merge manually.

[crwdfwtx]

It's hard for me to see how any developer would want anything 'automatic' happening to his code.

I don't even VSS install on this machine, yet I get Unknown status quite often. Maybe there's a pattern I haven't seen but it's not due to an interaction with VSS.

I don't guess there's much need to continue this thread. I'll certainly be looking forward to an option in SOS that doesn't overwrite my checked-out files. Until then, I'll just revert to 3.x.

CRW
Dallas, Texas